Interesting Article in VEDA today - SOME NEW HOPE!

Non-Pharmacological Treatment "Alternative" Treatments
21

Sharon,

Thanks for the info. I remain very skeptical but hope it is the hormones. Given the background to this and what MA has highlighted, how is it even possible to “balance” something that is forever changing, especially in the female body? It doesn’t even make logical sense to me. All we know is that a woman is better at the same time she began taking bioidenticals (and Cymbalta for 2 months). As we know with migraine there are lots of reasons that can bring on remission. Sometimes there is no reason at all as Baloh emphasized in the interview.

Best, S

22

I personally don’t think Dr.'s give hormones enough attention. They play such a vital role in function of our bodies, and not just sex hormones. I’ve contemplated doing BHRT myself. However, when I had my hormone levels checked they were all normal, unlike Lisa’s. With that said, I do understand with what Scott wrote about balancing hormones. It seems very difficult but if a person has low levels then it does make sense to try to increase. I am well aware of the protocol Lisa is doing and I think it’s a great idea as she has suffered for so long. There is so so much Dr.'s don’t know about hormones and the human brain. I’m not big on alternative medicine but I’m very interested in BHRT.

Hormones are my biggest trigger without question. I know Scott would say they are the trigger and not the root cause and I do believe that based on everything I’ve researched over the past two years. However, if you can fix your biggest trigger…

If conventional migraine meds not working for you then BHRT does seem like a very logical option after first line migraine meds have been exhausted.

Just my two cents :slight_smile:

23

I too have developed issues with my hormones. Specifically my thyroid hormone has been affected by the intracranial pressure issues I have had due to my CSF leak and subsequent rebound pressure. I can’t believe how sick I was feeling due to the thyroid problem, and starting on a low dose thyroid med have me a boost.

It seems obvious to me that if someone’s hormone levels are off that it should be treated.

Lisa, as always, I wish you well. I hope this helps you regain your health!!! I am glad you have found a good endo to have in your corner.

Hugs.

24

I don’t think it is that obvious inafog. If, say, someone’s testosterone was rock bottom or progesterone was seriously low – as in clinically relevant – there would be more problems appearing on the radar than migraine. A significant drop in thyroid hormone for example creates all sorts of major issues way beyond migraine as you mentioned. However, the sort of depletions that these random blood tests show in the average person are not the sort that should cause dizziness and misery to the point where a person cannot function. If we took a sample of the population you would find that most would have one hormone or more in the long list they test for that would not be in the optimal range. And many would tell you they feel fine.

On top of the above, a woman’s hormones are highly variable throughout a given month. To me it makes no sense whatsoever in trying to “balance” hormones by popping pills every day, especially based on a reading from one blood test. The very next day depending on where you are in your cycle would show a completely different picture. And as I said previously, if hormone supplementation really did work for migraine you can bet the farm that we would know this by now and it would be first line therapy and we’d all be onto it. But it doesn’t work that way unfortunately and so it’s not.

Lastly, I have no idea why there is such interest in “bioidentical” hormones in the first place. They are chemically the same molecular structure as the pharmaceutical grade and more expensive. Is it because they are derived from plants that everyone thinks they are more natural and thus safe? As we know this is meaningless. It doesn’t matter if an active molecule is natural or not. in fact, there are documented cases of endometrial cancer in women who were on bioidentical hormones.

Based on this information and the fact that I know the Migraine Program (cure!) was a load of bunk I can only conclude that this approach is simply woo packaged up with a convincing story by cherry picking data, reporting anecdote and some people trying to make a buck out of it (note: I am not suggesting Lisa’s doctor is doing this at all but the guy me, Roberto and Molly dealt with was). I would love to be proven wrong on this and have it work but …

S 8)

25

There is no known cause for migraines that is recognized by neurologists. genetics is not a cause…it only speaks to whether people have a predisposition. The current strategy is to treat the symptoms, not the cause using a variety of meds and lifestyle modification, but that is not a cure either, it only reduces symptoms. And unfortunately with stubborn chronic migraine, like MAV, many people have setbacks. So if you are measuring a strategy based upon “cure”, then I am likely the only one who has found that, because I found a reason for my migraines, even after many diagnoses of MAV.

The people who ultimately find a cure for their chronic migraines will not be the ones who continue to treat symptoms using migraine strategies, it will be the ones who seek out some of the new strategies which are trying to find the cure for it. And you are comparing apples and oranges here, just because you got sucked into a disreputable program, is not anything like the one that Lisa is in. I just felt the need to defend her, as she has been more sick than almost anyone on this website, and I think it is admirable that she is fighting so hard. I would ask you to sit back and have an open mind and hope for the best for Lisa, she deserves it. ANd maybe she has come across a strategy that works for her and could also work for others, just like I did. if not, she will have tried, and that is no different than what you and others following the 10 commandments are doing…you are trying to get better…I am happy that I wasn’t satisfied with the migraine strategies and continued to look for the cause of my migraines! it was bad enough that I went undiagnosed for as long as I did, as there have been more problems that have come up due to the amount of damage done while I had intracranial hypotension from my leak. the thyroid issue is one of those issues.

I am truly sorry that you got taken by a scam in your search for a cure. I understand how that could have left a negative feeling about the entire strategy of hormones playing a role in this.

Lisa, I just want to say to you that you are an inspiration and a living testament to the tenacity of the human spirit. I will be praying that your endo holds the keys to your health and that y begin to feel better soon. Hugs.

26

— Begin quote from “inafog”

There is no known cause for migraines that is recognized by neurologists. genetics is not a cause…it only speaks to whether people have a predisposition.

— End quote

You are incorrect. Migraine is caused by abnormal brain chemistry and is a genetic difference, in most cases inherited from one or both of your parents. It is a chronic neurological illness that you were born with, meaning you CANNOT get rid of it. You can do a lot to manage the disease, but you cannot simply wish it away or “cure” it with any treatment at present. Research shows us that migraine involves what’s called an ionopathy or abnormality of the flow of chemicals in your brain across cell membranes, including serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine. Serotonin is a critically important chemical messenger best known for its role in depression and other mental health disorders. Serotonin is also part of the pain-regulation process, and migraineurs like us have certain abnormalities in their serotonin function.

— Begin quote from “inafog”

The current strategy is to treat the symptoms, not the cause

— End quote

Another common way people describe incurable diseases and how alternative therapists unfortunately classify western medicine. This is true of say taking an aspirin to stop the pain of a headache. Pain killers temporarily block the pain pathways – and so we could say it’s a symptom treatment just like an antihistamine is for a common cold. Taking a preventative migraine medication is not at all simply “treating the symptoms”. What we are doing is raising our threshold so that the migraine cascade and cortical spreading depression aren’t fired off and reducing central sensitisation which is heightened through repreated migraine attacks. Very different. To cure this disease you’d have to isolate and change the genetics of the person suffering from migraine disease and currently this is not possible.

— Begin quote from “inafog”

So if you are measuring a strategy based upon “cure”, then I am likely the only one who has found that, because I found a reason for my migraines, even after many diagnoses of MAV.

— End quote

Incorrect. If you do have migraine and messing around with your CSF pressure has alleviated your symptoms then you have probably successfully managed a trigger. I believe Lisa tried this which unfortunately made everything worse for her for a period of time.

— Begin quote from “inafog”

The people who ultimately find a cure for their chronic migraines will not be the ones who continue to treat symptoms using migraine strategies, it will be the ones who seek out some of the new strategies which are trying to find the cure for it.

— End quote

There is no cure for migraine Inafog. I hate to put a damper on your thinking here but what you’re saying is just factually wrong. Sure we need to look for new ways to treat migraine more successfully for more people but it’s no easy task because it’s a complex disease. Furthermore there just has not been enough money thrown into migraine research like breast cancer for example. We’re still using drugs from 30-40 years ago in some cases. But as I have been saying repeatedly now, the logic and evidence is just not there for using bioidenticals as a way to manage this disease. People need to be aware of this.

— Begin quote from “inafog”

And you are comparing apples and oranges here, just because you got sucked into a disreputable program, is not anything like the one that Lisa is in.

— End quote

How is the Migraine Program different from what Lisa is trying apart from a different and well-intentioned doctor? If I have this wrong please let me know. I see no difference. Blood tests happen, they look at your hormone levels and then supplement those hormones that are not in “balance” or at the correct levels with bioidenticals.

— Begin quote from “inafog”

I just felt the need to defend her, as she has been more sick than almost anyone on this website, and I think it is admirable that she is fighting so hard.

— End quote

There is no need to defend Lisa. No one is having a go at Lisa, least of all me. It is the treatment we are interested in. This is what we do at mvertigo. I know Lisa is having a really shitty time and it sucks. No one wants to see her feel well again more than I but I feel obliged to make sure we all have the most accurate and correct information available before embarking on time-consuming and potentially costly treatments. Three of us have already been down this road already and it failed.

— Begin quote from “inafog”

there have been more problems that have come up due to the amount of damage done while I had intracranial hypotension from my leak. the thyroid issue is one of those issues.

— End quote

There were side effects and damage done by this procedure? That’s terrible!

— Begin quote from “inafog”

I am truly sorry that you got taken by a scam in your search for a cure. I understand how that could have left a negative feeling about the entire strategy of hormones playing a role in this.

— End quote

No need to feel sorry. I was over it a long time ago. I learned a hard lesson really - about thinking there is a migraine cure through the use of hormones (no idea why I fell for that in hindsight) and getting roped into something that didn’t hold water. But again, I see no difference in what the three of us tried and what this is.

All the best,
Scott

27

Scott, the CSF procedure did not cause abnormal thyroid, it is believed that the abnormal CSF pressure did.

I am cured of migraines because my CSF leak has been fixed. So yes it was a cure for migraine instead of a treatment. Since I never had migraines previously, I don’t really look at CSF leak as a trigger…I suppose you could say that but since fixing the pressure cured the migraine problem, I would call it the cause.

Scott I can’t believe that after 5 years of suffering and no success, it is your opinion that Lisa and others like her should continue to follow the Ten Commandments (just love the God reference in that) even though there has been no relief ? I know you to be more caring than that, and I also know you would be and have tried everything in yr power and means to get better.

If your commandments don’t work for her, maybe she will find something that works for her that did not work for you? I remember you trying some physio therapy strategy during yr last flareup, I never saw anyone jumping online to tell you it was a waste of time and money? I believe that people including myself were supportive and hopeful for you, whether or not they believed it would help, because this is a genuinely caring group of people who truly wish the best for one another and offer encouragement…

I believe that eventually we will be able to get rid of migraines, like I did. it it will take research into what causes the abnormal brain chemistry. Hopefully some of the studies that are currently underway to do just that will bring a cure for this. I am full of hope for everyone who suffers with this, that there will someday be more than just treating symptoms and they will get better. I guess I am just optimistic. And I have very high hopes for Lisa that this will be her cure. medical science has a way of continually moving forward…and migraine is common enough to get a lot of attention and studies. In the meantime I am happy that the commandments help some people cope.

I know that my path to cure does not line up with your commandments, and I am truly sorry if that causes you distress or frustration. I am happy to be better, and I still peak in on this site when old topics ping my inbox. I have benefitted from much of the information here.

28

Hello,

I just wanted to chime in here and concur with what Scott has said, which is that no one needs to come to Lisa’s defence because what he has said isn’t an ‘attack’ on her, but a discussion of a proposed treatment plan. In fact by providing evidence based information on this forum, Scott is defending not only Lisa, but also everyone else.

Everyone wants Lisa, and indeed everyone else who is very ill, to get well. I am sure no one more so than Scott. He puts hours and hours in to maintaining and running this forum with the express intention of trying to help people on the road to recovery.

H

29

Inafog,

We’re going to have to agree to disagree. It’s clear that you believe migraine can be cured and that it is not a genetic disease despite 2 decades of universal sound evidence and science to the contrary. Not much I can do about that. It’s a belief you have and obviously need to cling onto to stay sane.

Your statement about trying everything in my power to get better is interesting: what that means to me is trying everything in my power that has a reasonable chance of success and I weigh that up based on the plausibility, evidence, science and expert opinion behind the treatment in question (which admittedly I did a poor job of with the Migraine Program). There has to be some sort of method to work out what we should be doing and not doing, especially when it might cost a bomb, be dangerous, and waste lots of time. If we had no way of doing this we could all be walking around waving incense sticks chanting mantras, taking miracle cures like the famous PXP for example or worse being subjected to some invasive procedure that was pointless. If it was 1775 we probably would be thinking a “cure” was on the way doing just that.

I’m curious why you would not be wondering yourself how something like bioidenticals would work given the discussion so far. Have you asked yourself does it really differ from the Migraine Program we three tried? How can hormones be balanced when you know how variable they are anyway? Why isn’t something as obvious as hormone treatment a MAJOR treatment option for migraine management? Why isn’t it in the US National Guidelines?

No frustration or distress whatsoever at my end. When someone asks about this stuff (e.g. acupuncture, a particular supplement, or some other "alternative” treatment like bios for migraine) or puts it out there on the forum I put my two cents in without waffling or watering down my opinion. I tell them my understanding of the published scientific evidence and the plausibility of the treatment, and then my bottom-line view. People are free to take it or leave it. I do this as if I were talking about any treatment option and hope someone would do the same for me if they thought I needed to hear it.

Cheers

30

This article says 2 MORE genetic links to migraines found…meaning this is not new…

philly.com/philly/health/Hea … Genes.html

It is definitely genetic and I could have told you that myself, without these nice scientists doing all this work. But it is a good feeling to be backed up by experts and facts & things.

The only ‘cure’ will be some sort of a genetic alteration and as far as I can see that ain’t happening real soon.

We can only manage our condition, not cure it. There is a big difference.

Just my 2 cents.

K

31

I just want to chime in briefly and make a general comment in response to the idea that critically examining therapies is somehow not ‘supportive’ of people who wish to try them. This pops up from time to time on mvertigo. I believe that to simply say “go for it” without questioning the claims of the therapy (which are generally unrealistic and quite often frankly outlandish) is being the opposite of supportive to the individual and to the greater mvertigo community.

I know people get desperate and will try anything. That’s fine. Some words on an internet forum don’t (and shouldn’t have) the power to stop anyone from doing that. The only reason I can think of why a person who proposes to try such a therapy would get upset and/or defensive about it is if deep down they know it is a long shot unlikely to work. That’s OK too. I just think everyone needs to go into these things with their eyes wide open. By the forum members critiquing the therapy, that’s what we’re trying to do - facilitate informed decision making.

32

Victoria, Nothing I did to get better was outlandish or unrealistic, yet I am cured of my chronic headaches by medical professionals who are the top of their field. You are correct that a person should not let the opinions of people on this forum who have no medical background sway their actions, but it is so hard to keep hope when suffering so much with this disease that I think that needs to be kept in mind when agressively dissing a top neuro endrochronologist who is trying to help. Most of the forums I have participated in lean more towards supporting one another, sharing research information and generally being the shoulder for people to lean on without judgment. You never know what might just end up helping someone…just like in my case.

Whenever I post about my recovery, or about Anything contrary to the commandments, certain people jump on every word I say to dispute it, but rarely has anyone ever said to me that they are happy for me that I am doing better. I post here on occasion anyway, regardless of the icy response in hopes that someone else who suffered as much as I did will look into intracranial hypertension and hypotension to sort out whether that fits their symptoms. (If you are a woman of child bearing age and are overweight especially around the abdomen, I would implore you to look into intracranial hypertension as a cause. if you have had neck or back injuries that precipitated your symptoms, I would look into intracranial hypotension. Or if you have connective tissue disorders).

I have no family history of migraines, so that could be another reason to look for another cause.

I also know how terrible hormone issues can make you feel, and I hope that Lisa gets some relief, and so happy for her that she has a top doctor in her corner. Looking forward to good news from her in the near future!

I see that you have recently had a setback but are improving. I am happy you are on a good trend again and that the long holiday was helpful. I believe that this condition is just so dibilitating that sometimes a long break is what the brain needs to recover. Wishing you continued recovery and many good days into the future.

I feel for and pray for all who are suffering, I have been there. I have been so desperate With the constant dizzy I thought I could not go on. There is nothing more challenging that I have had to go through, and quite frankly, my future is uncertain, as cervical spinal leaks are difficult to fix permanently with the glue patching techniques. It is a day at a time for me, but today is a good day and I have energy enough for a virtual hug for each of you who find yourself suffering today.

I know we are all passionate about the things that we have tried that have helped.

33

Inafog,

Just re-confirming that my post was a general comment, and not directed at you individually or any therapy in particular. My point was that I don’t believe it is ‘unsupportive’ to discuss or even critique a therapy. Any therapy. Even where an individual member has satisfied themselves of all the pros/cons and has researched a therapy to their own level of satisfaction this remains an open forum with hundreds of members and thousands more who read but don’t post, or even join. We have a collective responsibility to all those people to discuss these therapies openly and without fear of offending or upsetting someone who is trying them by discussing the evidence for and against.

There are plenty of forums devoted solely to emotional support for migraine sufferers and/or where unusual or emerging or alternative therapies are discussed without question or even embraced. Good luck to them. Mvertigo quite clearly states in the Constitution that on this forum therapies will always be critiqued. This is not confined to alternative therapies. We constantly share experiences about the side effects of various medications, their efficacy, responses to trigger management and so on. I can see no reason why any particular therapy, particularly those with a weak or emerging evidence base should be quarantined from that process.

I agree with you about the brain needing a ‘break’. Stress makes most of us worse. It’s a bit expensive to have a holiday every time to achieve that so I definitely need to work on my stress reduction. I’m very happy for you achieving relief from your symptoms. Long may it continue!

34

— Begin quote from “Victoria”

There are plenty of forums devoted solely to emotional support for migraine sufferers and/or where unusual or emerging or alternative therapies are discussed without question or even embraced. Good luck to them.

— End quote

Inafog - I’m sorry you feel unsupported here and that responses feel “icy” (that was probably directed at me). Perhaps mvertigo is just not your cup of tea. I don’t know what else to say to you. The forum runs as it does and will not change as long as Adam and I are the administrators. We built this forum because, frankly, we got sick of the junk information out there and people freaking out whenever a treatment was critiqued. You probably won’t be surprised to know that both of us were banned from the Dizzy Lounge in 2005 for these reasons.

There is a closed forum on Facebook that might interest you called “Migraine Associated Vertigo Relief through Alternative Therapy” with over 100 members. Anything goes in there.

All the best,
Scott

35

Fair enough, perhaps though a discussion can take place without calling someone’s opinions ignorant.

I think it is also flawed that one bad scam artist that a few people got swindled into paying huge $ up front, should tarnish the idea in general that hormones might play a role in migraine and dizzy. it does make sense though to share aboutthe possibility of scams in this area. One rotten apple does not mean all the apples are rotten.

I think that support, respect and good information can be achieved together.

In my mind the current migraine strategies are not good enough, people still suffer. If all we do is defend those strategies and voraciously attack any new emerging ideas, then people will be waiting a long time and suffer a long time, before enough studies are completed to pass the test of this forum. but there are many doctors working on promising theories NOW, which might be worth looking into and analyzing with OPEN minds. The ideal candidates for these new emerging theories would be people who had no success with traditional strategies.

36

— Begin quote from “inafog”

I think it is also flawed that one bad scam artist that a few people got swindled into paying huge $ up front, should tarnish the idea in general that hormones might play a role in migraine and dizzy. it does make sense though to share aboutthe possibility of scams in this area. One rotten apple does not mean all the apples are rotten.

— End quote

I’m still waiting for an answer to these questions from you or anyone for that matter if you/ they can. I asked the same questions to a rather rabid group of individuals on Facebook and all hell broke loose. It was amazing … all because of a few simple questions.

Question 1: how does what Lisa (or the VEDA woman) is doing differ from the Migraine Program?
Question 2: female hormones are HUGELY variable – how can anyone hope to “balance” them – whatever that means?
Question 3: Why bioidentical? It is meaningless and no different than real hormones … why the natural/ plant angle? For me that = red flag.

In case you have never looked at this, here’s what happens using the “Dzugan Method”:

http://www.dzugan.com/html/how_it_works.php

Thanks

37

— Begin quote from “scott”

I asked the same questions to a rather** rabid group of individuals** on Facebook and all hell broke loose. It was amazing … all because of a few simple questions.

— End quote

Easy fella. Don’t do an Allan Jones on us! :lol:

38

— Begin quote from “inafog”

If all we do is defend those strategies and voraciously attack any new emerging ideas, then people will be waiting a long time and suffer a long time, before enough studies are completed to pass the test of this forum.

— End quote

But that’s not all we do at all. This is a classic example of a false dichotomy.

On this forum we constantly discuss the down sides of current strategies (the side effects of meds, the tedious boredom of dietary restrictions…) and emerging ideas are not ‘voraciously attacked’ they are critically scrutinized. Many people on this forum (Scott included) have tried alternative and emerging therapies out of ignorance (which is not a criticism it simply means a knowledge gap) and/or desperation and all they got was a lighter wallet. When other people report success on those treatments the RIGHT thing to do is drill down into it - were they on other therapies, did they experience sponataneous or even gradual remission, was there some additional medical issue that was exacerbating the migraine and so on and so on. None of that amounts to a voracious attack. It is a well motivated attempt to figure out what is going on - what is plausible and what is backed by solid evidence (anecdote is not sufficient). This approach benefits us all. I really hope you can see that.

This forum has exactly the same test as the scientific method. But as discussed earlier it has no power to approve any treatment or any choices an individual makes about what treatment they wish to pursue. No one has to ask this forum’s permission to do anything. If anyone wants to take a gamble on a new or alternative therapy they will do their own research and make their own choices, just as you have. But as Scott has spelt out, for us to unquestioningly accept such a therapy is in direct opposition to the stated goals of this particular forum.

39

Victoria,

The comment was that someone’s opinion about meds was ignorant. Not that the people who fell for a scam were ignorant. I don’t think any of the people on this forum are ignorant. I think they are suffering and in pain and doing whatever they can to get better.

Scott,

I would be afraid of a group of hormonal women as well… Hehe…

I am not an expert on hormone replacement. My comments are based upon the fact that the traditional migraine strategies are not effective for everyone. Therefore I think we would all agree that such a person should try other strategies to get better. There are no other strategies that past the test of this forum. I am a case in point of a different strategy that worked. My very first comment that you jumped all over was that I think it seems obvious that hormones play a role. look no further than this forum for all the posts about how much worse women’s are during TOM. Migraine sufferers are more commonly women and peak during the most hormonal years. The symptoms of hormone imbalances include many of the MAV symptoms. I have no knowledge of herbal hormones vs. Prescription grade hormones, it does not raise a red flag for me though automatically. most drugs come from plants.

I would be happy to write up a complete statement about intracranial hypertension and hypotension, which I have obviously researched at great length, if you thought it might be helpful.

40

Inafog,

You say you are a case in point. I have to be honest and say that while I’m VERY HAPPY that you are well (no ice there :lol: , I really am), I am not completely convinced that you are a migraineur given what’s happened. The way I look at your particular case, I see the following four possibilities:

  1. You do not have migraine at all and never have but you do/did have some structural problem causing a leak of CSF which caused you to have neurological symptoms that mimic elements of MAV - hence your “cure” belief.
  2. You do have migraine and this CSF thing was a main TRIGGER (note, not the cause) of your previous problems which now it is not.
  3. You are a migraineur and your CSF operation/ patch has had nothing to do with your feeling well. Your migraine is in remission for whatever reason (it happens) and the CSF thing is completely unrelated.
  4. You are a migraineur and there was no CSF problem at all to begin with that required intervention despite CFS levels not being what is classed as normal. Operation or not, you would have reached remission at a later stage.

And so, because yours is a very unusual case with a number of possibilities, I wouldn’t personally (I mean me) be telling people to have someone stick needles in their spine. I think this is logical and rational thinking. I know you are absolutely convinced of what you have and really, it probably doesn’t matter as long as it never returns and you continue to feel well and don’t have to have any more potentially dangerous procedures. Long may it last. Interestingly, Lisa too was told her CSF was not right (correct me if I’m wrong) after chasing this up and she went through the same invasive procedure as you but she felt far worse afterwards and regretted it (as I did with my bioidentical trip). My recollection is that it took a very, very long time to return to the baseline she’d had before.

So we have a sample size of two, on this forum anyway. One positive and one negative and a number of possibilities.

With bioidenticals (I’m not making a direct comparison to what could be a real CSF leak btw) we have a story of a woman posted on the VEDA site who says she is well as a result of this treatment. We also know (according to Sharon and my understanding from her post here) that the woman was on Cymbalta for 2 months as the bios were introduced. The article states other medicines were also being taken but not altered during treatment. I have no idea what they were – possibly negligible, maybe not. We also have three others from this forum for whom this therapy did not work. For one of them the result was catastrophic way beyond what anyone should have to go through. So no, I certainly wouldn’t recommend this and to me it’s woo and nothing more.

Yes, hormone fluctuation triggers migraine. Very well known solid information. But ADDING hormones (ones derived from plants no less) to the body as a way to somehow balance them does not work for migraine – there’s no real evidence for it. And how could it given the daily variability which peaks before a period? If it did work, it would be a corner stone for migraine therapy, especially for women, and we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. To me it’s a no-brainer. And so while it’s known that hormones trigger this crap, it’s not at all obvious that by consuming hormones that all will be fixed. If some compelling evidence were to come to light that refuted what I’m saying (and not just anecdote), and suddenly there were lots of people getting well based on the methodology, I’d change my mind in a heart beat.

Right, thanks for hanging in with the discussion … I have to head home. This first dose of propranolol has me feeling very “trippy”.

:slight_smile: